190 Comments
User's avatar
Jan's avatar

Excuse me! Where is the NO turkey choice?!

Anne Kadet's avatar

Hmm. I think the no turkey option must be in someone else's poll.

Alice Griffiths's avatar

I put “all the turkeys” because we visit my cousins upstate, and there are usually 35-40 of us for dinner! Last year there were five turkeys, each slightly different, but all delicious. (Don’t worry, it’s pot luck! We don’t make one person do all that cooking :))

Anne Kadet's avatar

Whoa five turkeys! I am impressed. Now I am wondering, how many pies? In my fam we have like five pies for 13 people, plus a cheesecake! (I am not saying who brings the cheesecake).

Alice Griffiths's avatar

Countless desserts. I bring two pies and another dessert (pecan tassies this year). But there are at least 6 pies (not sure, I'll count this year), cookies galore, ice cream, pumpkin cheesecake (my cousin Maureen), and I can't think what else! We eat for two days, so... :)

Eleni D. Vlachos's avatar

Haha, that is what I came here to say, Jan! I vote for my bird-free Jack Daniels Gritty-Glaze seitan roast.

Also, Anne, I was happy to find you after reading your recent Times Square post. So good!

Anne Kadet's avatar

Haha more turkey for me, Eleni!

Rob Stephenson's avatar

I like all these Cafe Anne vegans coming out of the woodwork!

Anne Kadet's avatar

It's funny Rob. I loves me a strip steak but most of my friends have typically been vegans or vegetarians. Maybe I attract that type. Or maybe I live in Brooklyn.

Rob Stephenson's avatar

I would like to see the Venn diagram

Eleni D. Vlachos's avatar

In my case the diagram circles would need to stretch to Athens, Greece. Found Anne from one of your posts, Rob. Enjoy your neighborhood research work very much! Lived in Harlem on 154th street a few years back. One of the lifers called the area "The Bottoms."

Jan's avatar

Love that phrase! Bird-free. Add some mushroom gravy to that roast: mmm mm : )

Eleni D. Vlachos's avatar

Oooh, yes! Planning to include that very gravy at our small celebration here in Greece. They have these incredible mushrooms here, cousins to the oyster but with way more flavor, "Plevrotous." If you're ever in the area, definitely try them out!

Jan's avatar

We were just in Athens last year, and out on Kephalonia. Too early for mushroom season, though. Yay for Plevrotous gravy!

Eleni D. Vlachos's avatar

Oh nice! I've never been to that island but it looks beautiful.

Nicole's avatar

I vote for your bird-free Jack Daniels Gritty-Glaze seitan roast!

Eleni D. Vlachos's avatar

Vote tallied! Thank you for your vote, Nicole!

Sara's avatar

I wished for fractional options! I'm a little put out to discover the exorbitant premium placed on the "convenience" of cutting up a single bird: my planned drumstick ($5.99/lb: estimated 1.8 lbs) and thigh ($6.99/lb: estimated 2.9 lbs) will probably last a good 5-6 meals but still! Still!!!

Anne Kadet's avatar

STILL!

I mean, REALLY!

Writer Pilgrim by So Elite's avatar

I was wondering the same thing!

Erika Zeitz's avatar

How about the “only the turkey thigh or drumstick” option?

Will Cruttenden's avatar

Even as a non American vegetarian, I will be celebrating Thanksgiving. I’ll skip straight to the cheesecake though.

Paul Lukas's avatar

Eruvim are classically inconspicuous. I've long been fascinated by them, so I *loved* this story -- great job, Anne!

Anne Kadet's avatar

Thanks Paul! And of COURSE you already knew and were fascinated by Eruvim!

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

In 72 years I've never heard of Eruvim. According to 23&Me I am a "worldly" person...mostly Italian, Baltic, Spanish, Arabian (Levant), Egyptian, Macedonian (Alexander Da Great), Gallic, and a dash Ashkenazim Jewish...but I hate rules and regulations so I could never be orthodox. God Bless those who can be....

Anne Kadet's avatar

Freedom is slavery, JRB. Enjoy!

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

Sez the "free-est" young woman in NYC as she blithely pursues everything and anything that she finds curious...like a non-existent, ultra-exclusive restaurant that pranked EVERYONE! Anne your life is checkmate to Orwell's quote...

As Janis Joplin sang, "Freedom is just another word for "nothin" left to lose..."

David Roberts's avatar

You can break the Sabbath for health reasons. If you do not break the Sabbath to help someone who is ill (including yourself), that is as bad as breaking the Sabbath for no reason.

Anne Kadet's avatar

Yes, they made that clear to me, David. Health tops everything!

Jack Levavi's avatar

At the risk of nitpicking, Monsey is not in the Catskills. I believe it's in Rockland County. I live in Brooklyn, and not all Jews here "hold by" the eruv in the Flatbush area. They have hallachic issues with it. Try to get two Jews to agree on anything.

Anne Kadet's avatar

Thank you Jack, I will fix my geography error.

And yes I was interested to learn from Chaya that when the Eruv was introduced to Williamsburg in the 1980s, it was very controversial and there are still people who don't think it's a good idea or recognize it for themselves.

Avery Robinson's avatar

My family has been making turkey-shaped pizzas for over 30 years. My dad "carves" the inaugural turkey, shaping the dough into a side profile of a bird with two distinct legs, head, wattle, etc. The tradition started because my family did not enjoy eating turkey and we did enjoy making pizza on the regular. It had turned into a wonderful tradition that significantly reduces the burden on my mom (who cooks most every family meal) to making dough and prepping a handful of ingredients while also making a fun, engaging activity for everyone. Guests and children love it. After the initial turkey is "carved," everyone is invited to make their own version, which is always great.

Also, pizza thanksgiving is very accomodating to dietary restrictions. We have done many vegan and handful of vegan iterations over the years.

Anne Kadet's avatar

Oh this is so fun, Avery! I love it too!

Does anyone make a turkey pizza with turkey on it? Which doesn't sound very appetizing, but...

Jules Torti's avatar

YES! This is our tradition! Kim and I first experienced "Thanksgiving Pizza" at Extreme Pizza in Halifax, Nova Scotia. We loved that it was out-of-season (April) and recreated the recipe when we returned home. You can use cranberry sauce or gravy as the base (and use the opposite for a dunk). We've loaded it with all sorts of leftovers---Brussel sprouts, stuffing, sweet potatoes--with marble cheese. You can't go wrong, ever.

Rob Stephenson's avatar

"There’s a lot of things no one’s done before,” is as good a motto as any. Loved learning about the Manhattan Eruv from Eden and learning about its caretaker from you. Hope you got some sleep!

Anne Kadet's avatar

I liked that line too, Rob.

I was sort of a wreck the next day but nothing FIVE CUPS OF COFFEE couldn't fix.

Rob Stephenson's avatar

Bustelo I presume?

Tobias Baskin's avatar

Rob--Photos perhaps??!!!

Justin Difazzio's avatar

This newsletter reminded me of something I read about eruvim years ago. I had completely forgotten they exist. It seems like such a semantic loophole. I guess I just don't understand how a fishing line does anything more than an imaginary line everyone agrees is there. It's fascinating.

Anne Kadet's avatar

I am puzzled in the same way, Justin. If fishing line works as a boundary, why not go all the way and just impute it with one's imagination? But the Rabbi and his wife said no can do. It has to be a physical thing.

Eric's avatar

Well, because if Jewish law is *literally* what God wants Jews to do, then you don't just go on vibes. You get all the details right, because they matter. And if a courtyard is defined as something that is enclosed by a wall, then you figure out what counts as a wall, and turns out . . . sometimes it's fishing line.

(Note the first "if", that's a load-bearing if.)

Justin Difazzio's avatar

Yeah it is. And I don't want to malign someone's belief system. It just seems like, if you can find a loophole that lets a courtyard be a whole city inside a fishing line...it feels like another step further isn't that big of a step. But I get that obedience is what some people strive for over seeing how far they can stretch boundaries before they break, sometimes literally.

Eric's avatar

True enough, except that the people doing this mostly don't think of it as loopholes. The exercise is, given what's written in the Torah, and the Mishna (ca 200 CE) and the Gemara (ca 600) and the many commentators through the ancient, medieval, and modern eras *what is the best definition for the minimum wall*?

(And sometimes, conveniently, it is indeed fishing line. But, similarly, if you don't want to work on the Sabbath, it turns out that this includes . . . carrying your house keys.)

Good Humor by CK Steefel's avatar

I love this! I had no idea there was an Eruv around Manhattan! I know of ones around neighborhoods but not around the island.

I must recommend a partial Shabbat to you. Try one Saturday-- not using your phone, computer, no electronics for 24 hours. It truly calms the soul. (G-d had a few genius commandments.) You don't have to go to the extreme as the Orthodox do although I do respect their dedication.

BTW, the Christian Sabbath comes from Shabbat.

Anne Kadet's avatar

You don't need to talk ME into taking a day of rest and staying away from screens, CK. I do this on the regular. I think I'd go bonkers if I didn't!

Curious what your habit is, if you have one.

Good Humor by CK Steefel's avatar

No texting but available by phone in case of emergency. I have to warn family or they might forget. We do drive— to a Torah study class. No work. Reading for enjoyment only. I try to have cholent (stew) made so I don’t have to cook but it doesn’t always happen. Lots of organizing ahead of time to make Sabbarh happen. Glad you unplug! Do you have a ritual?

Anne Kadet's avatar

No phone/internet between 9 pm and 8 am—that's pretty much every day!

And then Saturday is no work, no chores, no volunteering, no errands—with as little screen time as possible. Although sometimes phone is needed for logistics—meeting a friend, etc.

Good Humor by CK Steefel's avatar

That’s awesome! Ever try celebrating Friday night with a home cooked meal with friends and family? It’s a ritual here, including home baked challah. It’s a great way to say B’bye to the week and thanking G-d or name-your-favorite-source for life, food, health, love…

David Perlmutter's avatar

Canadians like me have already been through Thanksgiving (we have it in October).

Anne Kadet's avatar

Hmmm. Now I am thinking Americans should ALSO celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving, David and vice versa!

Andrew Truong's avatar

turkey poutine... now we're talking

Barb Cowles's avatar

Made me LOL. Thank you.

David Perlmutter's avatar

Or do them both and confuse people…

Ross's avatar

Back in March 2011 The Daily Show did a hysterical episode about the eruv around NYC. Wyatt Cenac did the piece but sadly Comedy central doesn't post it anymore.Butnthebhighlight was him wearing a top-hat with a string supported by 4 poles while he ate a cheeseburger. (If you don't know the joke I can't explain it.)

Anne Kadet's avatar

Ha that's pretty great, Ross.

Sheri Handel's avatar

Wow, I've been Jewish for a long time (all my life), and I never knew about Eruvim. I love the argument about AI; classic. Well done, Anne. Thank you!

Anne Kadet's avatar

Thanks Sheri!

Before I wrote this, I told a lot of my friends about it. And I was fascinated to see that whether or not someone knew about the eruv seemed to have little to do with whether they were Jewish. A lot of my Jewish friends had never heard of it, and many of my non-Jewish friends had!

Emily Groveman's avatar

I only knew about it because I (shiksa) married a reformed Jewish man who explained the Teaneck, NJ Eruv to me.

Rebecca's avatar

This is fascinating, Anne! I’m Jewish but not orthodox and this is a new world to me. Thanks for being respectful, thoughtful, and curiois

Anne Kadet's avatar

It was so fun to learn about all this, Rebecca! Glad you enjoyed.

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

As for how many turkeys that really hits home because in my wife's family which is a very large family are designated holiday every year is Thanksgiving. We got screwed because that is the most difficult holiday to host 30 people! So we have four turkey breasts that I have to cook two at a time and somehow get them all to the table by 2:00 p.m. you know Benjamin Franklin was right about electricity and lightning but that SOB wanted to make the national bird a turkey?! I mean so now like every Thanksgiving millions and millions of people have to sit down to Turkey as dry as sawdust! My mom was always terrified of undercooking the turkey and man oh man you couldn't walk with your plate by a incandescent light bulb and it would spontaneously combust! God bless her! And one year my Romanian grandfather salted the turkey before everybody had sat down and my dad went ballistic!

Anne Kadet's avatar

JRB, you get four turkey breasts and then complain about the meat being dry? EVERYONE knows to eat the dark meat and give the white meat to the dog!

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

Anne, you are 100% correct!! But you didn't marry Patty Ann Petruzzi of Hubbard, Ohio; who NEVER eats dark meat!! Thus the turkey breasts for me and 30 guests EVERY year!

I'm a weak man...she was dazzling (still is) and I let my guard down.

Before we sit-down to dry-dry turkey breast, we have a refresher course before on the proper technique for the Heimlich Maneuver.

Pass the gravy....

Mark Dolan's avatar

When it comes to gravy, you don't want to miss the boat :) We pivoted over the years if the whole gang is together to two turkeys, one roasted for the gravy and one smoked to give men the excuse to huddle in the garage. Turkey has a low ceiling. No matter how you cook it it is hard for it to wow people. Anne has it figured out with the dark meat and yearning for duck.

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

Gravy Boat!!!

Turkey is a tasteless PIA!!

The accompaniments steal the show. Usually make oyster stuffing because my sons really like that but I can't get any oysters this year so I got smoked salmon and I'm going to make a Thanksgiving stuffing with smoked salmon and everything Bagels!

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

I made the "Everything Bagel/Smoked Salmon Stuffing." Not bad for the 1st try. I like oyster-stuffing better.

Gérard Mclean's avatar

100% correct! The dark meat is the only turkey meat worth anything, even when cooked correctly, the breast meat is gonna need gravy and gravy is just extra calories you need to budget away from pie 😀😀😀 My vet friends tell me dark turkey meat is bad for dogs, but white meat in moderation is ok. 🤷‍♂️

Mark Dolan's avatar

"dark turkey meat is bad for dogs" -- all things in moderation including moderation :) my dog made it to 18 years moderating. He did like dark meat though -- if nothing else probably makes for a shiny coat

Mark Dolan's avatar

Anne wins the comment sweepstakes in her own story!!! This pursuit of the turkey breast (shame on you JRB) of course begs the question: What the heck happens to all that meat beyond the breasts they are packaging separately. Maybe the dogs win after all and they get the dark meat eventually which isn't dry as Anne points out in the first place.

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

Oh man, Thanksgiving was our English Bulldog Tank's FAVORITE holiday by a mile!!

All the guests were given a pair of L.L. Bean Waders so they didn't slip on the drool!!

Sleepin' it off with Uncle Ed: https://photos.app.goo.gl/LZ4u7xwtvR18jovw9

Mark Dolan's avatar

I believe cooking for a crowd is one of the world's most difficult parlor tricks (invariably an extra card table or two reaches the parlor). Incorporating a cross-section of humanity makes it all the more difficult. Kudos to your wife. She may be one of the few earthlings who understands how many olives / celery sticks / carrots are required for such a throng. When it comes time to adjust the shelves in the refrigerator to accommodate the mishmash of leftovers your poor wife is left to consider whether to put the leftover crudites in the butter keeper out of desperation. I hope you have the good sense to have some extra wine in reserve for after dinner to smooth out the exhaustion. I'll have you know that my adopted home state of Minnesota raises more turkeys than any other. We are contributing to the challenge I am afraid. Happy Thanksgiving Frank!

Anne Kadet's avatar

At Thanksgiving, my contribution is washing the dishes.

Mark Dolan's avatar

Doing the dishes is AWESOME. 11 months and 28 days or so there is only one person who knows where the gravy boat and the ladle actually are stored :) That doesn't even count for those silly little forks for the olives :)

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

Happy Thanksgiving Mark!! You are correct about pulling it off. I'm always surprised and exhausted.

Gérard Mclean's avatar

When I was 15-18, I worked at a Scandinavian smorgasbord (Viking Village in St Paul.. it’s gone now 😢) BUT that kind of training makes thanksgiving prep and cooking child’s play! Three biggest holidays; Mothers Day, Christmas and Thanksgiving. Cooking for hundreds at $4.95, dessert and drink is extra, lutefisk on the menu from day after Thanksgiving through New Year’s Eve.

Mark Dolan's avatar

Ah the days of smorgasbords. I think it is a fond memory for many of us although I never worked in one.

JudgeRoyBean's avatar

"After further back and forth, we devised a solution—I’d sit in the back seat, and Rabbi Tauber would bring his wife!”

It reminds me of the dilemma that Walter was in in “The Big Lebowski” when the tournament roll off was scheduled for a Saturday and he was Shomer Shabbos!

https://youtu.be/KmULYr1nsZ0?si=keKoBMo4TCOlVN59

Anne Kadet's avatar

Oh man, I gotta watch BL again.

Mark Dolan's avatar

That was a foul...um I mean...that was a fowl.

Tobias Baskin's avatar

G-eruv-y!! If you want to cheat, go big or go home!! What a great story. Thank you.

Anne Kadet's avatar

Eruvelcome, Tobias!

Beth T (BethOfAus)'s avatar

Cool post. I’m in Australia and I don’t think we have turkeys over here. The eruv stuff is fascinating. (Spell check knows as much about that word as I did.). Religions are so strange. Fanatical viewpoints on such specific details. I understand why people do it, but I was raised by parents who believed that uniting people by finding the commonalities was more important than division through ‘nitpicking’. Ah well. All that proves is that we carry what we learn as kids with us for life. A terrific read. Thanks so much Anne. Enjoy your Thanksgiving and your break. Sending heaps of hugs and best wishes.

Anne Kadet's avatar

Thank you, Beth! And happy equivalent of whatever Thanksgiving may be in Australia!