Thank you for your comment on "curated". My blood pressure goes up a few points and I have to walk away from my desk for a few minutes whenever I see it in print. Gaaaaahhhh...
If you watch any HGTV/HOME Network programming it's the new catch-all that designers use to describe "bonus" spaces that don't have a fixed function. For example, your guest bedroom could be a gym! A yoga sanctuary! A VR gaming area! Insert a craft room, poker room, podcast studio here...
I swear the bagels at Ess-a-Bagel on First Avenue in Stuy Town are better than the rest. It appears that they share the branding and the name but have different ownership and slightly different menus, as well as different promo campaigns than the other Ess-a-Bagels across the city and in the airports. I get the feeling that it’s two sides of the same family, some kind of succession struggle. Did you happen to hear any of that during your research?
It IS two sides of the same family! The 1st Avenue store is run by Melanie's cousin, Beverly. According to Sam, Melanie, who oversees the Third Ave. store, is the one with the growth plans and oversaw the opening of all the other locations. Beverly's side of the family seems content with the one location.
I see Bev most Saturdays that we go in to the store, she’s very nice, their attention to the one store is borne out in the quality of the bagels. They recently upgraded their only weak point IMO and now serve coffee from a local roaster
It's such an interesting question, Nikki. I imagine in most cases, the small biz owners tells him or herself that they don't HAVE to choose between quality and growth because they want to have both. I wonder if there are any examples of businesses that actually figured this out.
I just had a bagel at their new Financial District outpost, and had the same exact experience. It was dry, bready, and overall, miserable. the original location has always been my go to for "BEST BAGEL EXPERIENCE" and was sad to see this happen. My bigger fear: the original location is moving, and I worry we might see everything go sideways.
Steve, thanks for the report on the new Broadway location. That place is also serving the factory bagels and you helping me feel reaassured that I am NOT CRAZY.
Also, yes, Melanie mentioned that the Third Ave. store is relocating to a new bigger space that will have more room for the company's growing catering operation. I imagine it's the people working IN the shop and not the shop itself that makes that place so great so it won't go sideways.
My youngest son, Tony (To New York) moved to NJ about 6 months ago and I thought the pizza there would be great. He surprised me when he said it was nowhere close to the pizza from Youngstown, Ohio ("Little New Yawk")
Fun! Read this after eating a Westchester County egg everything bagel with veggie cream cheese. It’s hard to find great bagels north of Yonkers, but my place in Croton-on-Hudson is decent. I miss H&H bagels though from my city days. Thank you for “suffering” for the sake of journalism!
Sam and I had a long discussion about H&H Amy! It was my first real NYC bagel after I moved here from Buffalo. I was blown away! And then mystified when in recent years I read a lot of gripes about it. Had I been wrong. Sam said it was sold a ways back and has gone downhill from its glory days.
Fantastic investigaton! Sam's line about everyone sacrificing quality when entering food halls captures someting we all know but rarely articulate. That gap between par-baked factory bagels and fresh hand-rolled ones is the exact tradeoff happening across so many NYC insitutions now. Also genuinely bummed about the missing capers on the Signature, those little salt bombs would have atleast elevated a subpar bagel situation.
Oh Anne! How could you?! I’m already seriously challenged to stick to the somewhat keto diet that I have been (sorta) trying to keep to—over the holidays—and you choose to write about bagels?! Do you understand how cruel this was?! H&H was a favorite of mine, of course. What other worsts do you have in mind, huh? Hopefully not dark chocolate. That would be the last nail in my coffin! Curses!
Anita, I am in a similiar boat, as you know. Sam, meanwhile, eats ten bagels a week and is in great shape! I did a story a couple years back about his bagel diet. Here's how he does it:
Thanks, Anne! I enjoyed the Bagel Man’s diet tale. I am inspired by his hutzpah (sp?) in going solo as a bagel entrepreneur! Also, I wanted to say that I feel bad that I castigated you for my dietary challenges. Feeling less alone with it is a balm, but it is what it is this time of year. That mammalian instinct to slow down and eat is tough—and oh so familiar! This too shall pass. I also got to thinking about how “the worst” stories turn into an invitation to contemplate “the best” ones.
And still! Montreal bagels is one of those things I can't wrap my head around. They are just so bad. So wrong. They fall into the same category as ricotta cheesecake. Or cats as pets. It's like, WTF. PEOPLE.
Oh, Anne. That is SO wrong. Montreal bagels are wonderful. I speak as a born New Jerseyan (ite?), the son of a baker who made several gazillion bagels in his long career. I grew up eating the NYC-style bagel (and yes, there were fantastic bagels in Jersey).
I emigrated to Canada 50+ years ago and have had the pleasure of spending a lot of time in Montreal over the past 20 years, having married a Quebecois woman. I was introduced to the Montreal bagel early on. It took some time to transition, but when I did, I was happy I did. The Montreal bagel is not a NY bagel. It is its own thing. It is thinner, most often covered with sesame seeds, sometimes with onions, and of course the "all dressed", which has everything on it.
There are two dominant bagel shops in Monteal, St. Viateur and Fairmont, both in business for decades, each with its fervent devotees. On a typical weekend morning the lines go out the door and onto the nearby sidewalks. The locals eat them in an unusual manner - the bages are warm, straight from the oven, delivered in brown paper bags. The bagel lovers buy a spread, sometimes cream cheese, sometimes smoked salmon and cream cheese. They plunk themselves down on nearby benches, tear open the bagel and DIP. It's a tradition!
When you get your order, it's always accompanied by a plastic bag for storage, in case you decide to freeze them.
Montreal bagels are sweet. They are not the gigantissimo monstrosities shown in the photos you shared. They are light, they are tender, they toast beautifully! They are delightful! And the locals LOVE to debate (argue) about which brand is better.
Montreal is one of the great cities in North America, and its bagels are fantastic. C'mon Anne, broaden that horizon. Visit Montreal this summer and I will give you a tour of the best bagels! We will have a great Bagel-Off!
Almost exactly one year ago, Absolute Bagels on the Upper West Side shut down for good after the health department found evidence of live and dead rats, roaches and other things you don’t want near your cinnamon raisin bagel. The place always had a line of people waiting to get in and was a perennial best bagel in the city contender. It was opened by a former Ess-a-Bagel employee.
You know what? The same thing was "alleged" about the Royal Oaks Beer Garden in Youngstown back in the day (my own father said it and would not eat the pizza from TRO); I always ate it! As Joy Behar says, "So What!! Who Cares?!"
I'd love to have a contest in which we pit the average American croissant against the average French bagel, my fellow Anne with an e. Which do you suppose is worse?
Oh wow that’s a tough one—although I haven’t sampled that widely, not one of the “bagels” I’ve tried in France has been a legitimate bagel, whereas I feel like I’ve had a legitimate croissant at some point in the US, so mayyybe the average is bumped up a little, if we calculate across all American croissants/all French bagels. But as an American I am definitely biased.
Brilliant article! Though I love all bagels I'm an outlier in that my favorite is Bagels on the Square in Father Demo Square at the corner of Carmine Street and Seventh Ave in the Village. Shiny outside true, some malt, true, giant compared to other bagels and I like the breadlike and only slightly boiled consistency. They do wholesale. And it's been renovated since I Iived on Carmine but the bagels are the same and I do make the detour sometimes.
Bagels on the Square is also where I invented the Sanderson Sandwich in 1986: cream cheese and hard salami in a bialy. Very easy to eat and carry at the same time, sits nicely wrapped in paper in your pocket and is actually better at room temperature.
Oh yum! After I graduated with a degree in philosophy, my first job out of school was working at a deli in downtown Brooklyn, a morning shift that started at 5 am. One of the sandwich specials was the Masiello, named after the mayor at the time. It was salami, cream cheese and pesto sauce on a kaiser roll. So good! If I remember correctly, I was gently "let go" because I made the sandwiches too slow.
Now you are bringing me back back to my NYU days Paul when lunch was a toasted bagel with butter and a can of Coke from the bodega at Broadway and East 8th. It think its time to revisit the glory days.
This was such a good story. I miss real Brooklyn bagels. I grew up eating onion bagels. And I'm just remembering getting them fresh from a neighborhood place... mmmmmm. I recently bought some freshly baked from a local supermarket. Oy! Why did I bother? I was desperate, Anne, that's what it was... desperate.
See, instead of garnering a tidy 3000 word bagel angst FEATURE, years ago I outsourced my anxiety about NYC bagels no longer being reliable by importing St-Viateur.
Oh no, Mr. Horymski. As I was telling Sam, the Montreal bagel really is the true Worst Bagel. Even when you salt them (which is 100% necessary to make them even remotely palatable), they are dry and tasteless. And the portions are so small!
I only had one 15 years ago (😂) but I loved it! It had so much flavor and it was really chewy. I had a cool t-shirt from St. St. Viateyr, hmmm...I wonder what happened to it.
I love a smaller bagel! I am not a fan of Ess A Bagel, TBH. Too big and doughy, I like a smaller ratio of crust to crumb.
Thank you for your comment on "curated". My blood pressure goes up a few points and I have to walk away from my desk for a few minutes whenever I see it in print. Gaaaaahhhh...
Hahaha this made me laugh so hard, Barb. Glad I am not alone in this!
Does "bespoke" give you the same palpitations, Barb? It's all so artisanal and bespoke these days in the (carefully curated) "flex room."
Arrrrgggghhhhh... Ruuuuunnnn,,, Oooo, flex room--new one for me. What is it?
If you watch any HGTV/HOME Network programming it's the new catch-all that designers use to describe "bonus" spaces that don't have a fixed function. For example, your guest bedroom could be a gym! A yoga sanctuary! A VR gaming area! Insert a craft room, poker room, podcast studio here...
🙌
I swear the bagels at Ess-a-Bagel on First Avenue in Stuy Town are better than the rest. It appears that they share the branding and the name but have different ownership and slightly different menus, as well as different promo campaigns than the other Ess-a-Bagels across the city and in the airports. I get the feeling that it’s two sides of the same family, some kind of succession struggle. Did you happen to hear any of that during your research?
It IS two sides of the same family! The 1st Avenue store is run by Melanie's cousin, Beverly. According to Sam, Melanie, who oversees the Third Ave. store, is the one with the growth plans and oversaw the opening of all the other locations. Beverly's side of the family seems content with the one location.
I see Bev most Saturdays that we go in to the store, she’s very nice, their attention to the one store is borne out in the quality of the bagels. They recently upgraded their only weak point IMO and now serve coffee from a local roaster
I enjoyed this story—I think it shows what many small businesses are asking themselves: do I make a lower quality product or do I restrict my brand?
And, now I know where to have a bagel when I finally make it to NYC! Thanks Anne.
It's such an interesting question, Nikki. I imagine in most cases, the small biz owners tells him or herself that they don't HAVE to choose between quality and growth because they want to have both. I wonder if there are any examples of businesses that actually figured this out.
That’s a good question. It’s a great idea for a little research, which would fit in nicely in my publication.
I just had a bagel at their new Financial District outpost, and had the same exact experience. It was dry, bready, and overall, miserable. the original location has always been my go to for "BEST BAGEL EXPERIENCE" and was sad to see this happen. My bigger fear: the original location is moving, and I worry we might see everything go sideways.
Steve, thanks for the report on the new Broadway location. That place is also serving the factory bagels and you helping me feel reaassured that I am NOT CRAZY.
Also, yes, Melanie mentioned that the Third Ave. store is relocating to a new bigger space that will have more room for the company's growing catering operation. I imagine it's the people working IN the shop and not the shop itself that makes that place so great so it won't go sideways.
Yeah, but will bagels continue to be made in house at the new location? Need confirmation that!
Yes, I believe so, Steve.
I'm going to get killed for this but I truly believe pizza and bagels are done better in Jersey!
Dear Mr Dwyer, No one is going to waste a bullet on such a silly fellow. Jersey has many many "done
betters" than the rest of the world but bagels and pizza, don't talk crazy talk. PS All
said with love.
LOL Well said, Ms. McEntee!
After all we have been through, please call me Liz
My youngest son, Tony (To New York) moved to NJ about 6 months ago and I thought the pizza there would be great. He surprised me when he said it was nowhere close to the pizza from Youngstown, Ohio ("Little New Yawk")
OMG, this reply is classic.
Fighting words, Mr. Dwyer!
Fun! Read this after eating a Westchester County egg everything bagel with veggie cream cheese. It’s hard to find great bagels north of Yonkers, but my place in Croton-on-Hudson is decent. I miss H&H bagels though from my city days. Thank you for “suffering” for the sake of journalism!
Sam and I had a long discussion about H&H Amy! It was my first real NYC bagel after I moved here from Buffalo. I was blown away! And then mystified when in recent years I read a lot of gripes about it. Had I been wrong. Sam said it was sold a ways back and has gone downhill from its glory days.
Ahh, R.I.P. the old H&H 😔
Fantastic investigaton! Sam's line about everyone sacrificing quality when entering food halls captures someting we all know but rarely articulate. That gap between par-baked factory bagels and fresh hand-rolled ones is the exact tradeoff happening across so many NYC insitutions now. Also genuinely bummed about the missing capers on the Signature, those little salt bombs would have atleast elevated a subpar bagel situation.
Thanks NF!
And it's so true. Capers—much like toasting—can do a lot to elevate a subpar food experience.
Oh Anne! How could you?! I’m already seriously challenged to stick to the somewhat keto diet that I have been (sorta) trying to keep to—over the holidays—and you choose to write about bagels?! Do you understand how cruel this was?! H&H was a favorite of mine, of course. What other worsts do you have in mind, huh? Hopefully not dark chocolate. That would be the last nail in my coffin! Curses!
Anita, I am in a similiar boat, as you know. Sam, meanwhile, eats ten bagels a week and is in great shape! I did a story a couple years back about his bagel diet. Here's how he does it:
https://annekadet.substack.com/p/diet
Thanks, Anne! I enjoyed the Bagel Man’s diet tale. I am inspired by his hutzpah (sp?) in going solo as a bagel entrepreneur! Also, I wanted to say that I feel bad that I castigated you for my dietary challenges. Feeling less alone with it is a balm, but it is what it is this time of year. That mammalian instinct to slow down and eat is tough—and oh so familiar! This too shall pass. I also got to thinking about how “the worst” stories turn into an invitation to contemplate “the best” ones.
NYC bagels are better toasted, Montreal's bagels are perfect as is. I SAID WHAT I SAID
You did. It's public, T-POP.
And still! Montreal bagels is one of those things I can't wrap my head around. They are just so bad. So wrong. They fall into the same category as ricotta cheesecake. Or cats as pets. It's like, WTF. PEOPLE.
Oh, Anne. That is SO wrong. Montreal bagels are wonderful. I speak as a born New Jerseyan (ite?), the son of a baker who made several gazillion bagels in his long career. I grew up eating the NYC-style bagel (and yes, there were fantastic bagels in Jersey).
I emigrated to Canada 50+ years ago and have had the pleasure of spending a lot of time in Montreal over the past 20 years, having married a Quebecois woman. I was introduced to the Montreal bagel early on. It took some time to transition, but when I did, I was happy I did. The Montreal bagel is not a NY bagel. It is its own thing. It is thinner, most often covered with sesame seeds, sometimes with onions, and of course the "all dressed", which has everything on it.
There are two dominant bagel shops in Monteal, St. Viateur and Fairmont, both in business for decades, each with its fervent devotees. On a typical weekend morning the lines go out the door and onto the nearby sidewalks. The locals eat them in an unusual manner - the bages are warm, straight from the oven, delivered in brown paper bags. The bagel lovers buy a spread, sometimes cream cheese, sometimes smoked salmon and cream cheese. They plunk themselves down on nearby benches, tear open the bagel and DIP. It's a tradition!
When you get your order, it's always accompanied by a plastic bag for storage, in case you decide to freeze them.
Montreal bagels are sweet. They are not the gigantissimo monstrosities shown in the photos you shared. They are light, they are tender, they toast beautifully! They are delightful! And the locals LOVE to debate (argue) about which brand is better.
Montreal is one of the great cities in North America, and its bagels are fantastic. C'mon Anne, broaden that horizon. Visit Montreal this summer and I will give you a tour of the best bagels! We will have a great Bagel-Off!
Terry,
First I am very happy that my anti-Montreal bagel remarks provoked this delightful response from you.
Second I've been to Montreal a bunch of times and I agree its a great city! With terrible bagels, haha!
Here in NYC we have a few bagel shops, notably Black Seed, founded by Montreal natives.
https://www.blackseedbagels.com/
It is this on which I base my opinions. Maybe I need to go to back to Montreal and try the real deal!
This reads like a poem...thanks, Terry.
Cats have us as pets. Not me, I am an emotional support human for my dog.
Almost exactly one year ago, Absolute Bagels on the Upper West Side shut down for good after the health department found evidence of live and dead rats, roaches and other things you don’t want near your cinnamon raisin bagel. The place always had a line of people waiting to get in and was a perennial best bagel in the city contender. It was opened by a former Ess-a-Bagel employee.
I like that you specified cinnamon raisin Rob. Live/dead rodents, etc. are a-ok with poppy and sesame, I take it.
The cinnamon raisin bagel here speaks for all bagels. A synecdoche, or cinnadoche, if you will.
You know what? The same thing was "alleged" about the Royal Oaks Beer Garden in Youngstown back in the day (my own father said it and would not eat the pizza from TRO); I always ate it! As Joy Behar says, "So What!! Who Cares?!"
https://youtu.be/ImX_jvOFBS0?si=lcwKYSRqmYIbVapp
In France they punch a hole in some round bread and call it a bagel 🤦🏼♀️
I'd love to have a contest in which we pit the average American croissant against the average French bagel, my fellow Anne with an e. Which do you suppose is worse?
Oh wow that’s a tough one—although I haven’t sampled that widely, not one of the “bagels” I’ve tried in France has been a legitimate bagel, whereas I feel like I’ve had a legitimate croissant at some point in the US, so mayyybe the average is bumped up a little, if we calculate across all American croissants/all French bagels. But as an American I am definitely biased.
Hahaha!! 🤣🤣🤣 Vive la France!!! 🥖
One of the worst bagels of my life was from Bagelsteins in Paris
Hmmm I am not sure if I love or dislove the name "Bagelsteins"
🥲
Brilliant article! Though I love all bagels I'm an outlier in that my favorite is Bagels on the Square in Father Demo Square at the corner of Carmine Street and Seventh Ave in the Village. Shiny outside true, some malt, true, giant compared to other bagels and I like the breadlike and only slightly boiled consistency. They do wholesale. And it's been renovated since I Iived on Carmine but the bagels are the same and I do make the detour sometimes.
CCS we should go! Though if its a bigger, breadier bagel I will for sure have to order it TOASTED.
You’re on! I always get toasted and find that a slightly breadier texture toasts better.
Bagels on the Square is also where I invented the Sanderson Sandwich in 1986: cream cheese and hard salami in a bialy. Very easy to eat and carry at the same time, sits nicely wrapped in paper in your pocket and is actually better at room temperature.
Oh yum! After I graduated with a degree in philosophy, my first job out of school was working at a deli in downtown Brooklyn, a morning shift that started at 5 am. One of the sandwich specials was the Masiello, named after the mayor at the time. It was salami, cream cheese and pesto sauce on a kaiser roll. So good! If I remember correctly, I was gently "let go" because I made the sandwiches too slow.
I'm with you on toasting. A toast to toasted bagels!!
Now you are bringing me back back to my NYU days Paul when lunch was a toasted bagel with butter and a can of Coke from the bodega at Broadway and East 8th. It think its time to revisit the glory days.
This was such a good story. I miss real Brooklyn bagels. I grew up eating onion bagels. And I'm just remembering getting them fresh from a neighborhood place... mmmmmm. I recently bought some freshly baked from a local supermarket. Oy! Why did I bother? I was desperate, Anne, that's what it was... desperate.
Erika I am zapping a mental Brooklyn bagel your way—onion of course. You have to provide the toppings though.
They mix the cream cheese with SELTZER??
Very common practice, AZ! It makes for a fluffier spread.
I expect it's like making batter with seltzer! It makes it lovely and light! Can't remember if that was a Spanish or Japanese trick, but it's awesome!
See, instead of garnering a tidy 3000 word bagel angst FEATURE, years ago I outsourced my anxiety about NYC bagels no longer being reliable by importing St-Viateur.
Oh no, Mr. Horymski. As I was telling Sam, the Montreal bagel really is the true Worst Bagel. Even when you salt them (which is 100% necessary to make them even remotely palatable), they are dry and tasteless. And the portions are so small!
I only had one 15 years ago (😂) but I loved it! It had so much flavor and it was really chewy. I had a cool t-shirt from St. St. Viateyr, hmmm...I wonder what happened to it.
I love a smaller bagel! I am not a fan of Ess A Bagel, TBH. Too big and doughy, I like a smaller ratio of crust to crumb.
🤣🤣🤣