Such a good reminded that while we might perceive of a person with certain gifts -- intelligence, money, looks -- it doesn't mean their life is great. Not at all to minimize the struggle of those who don't have money or that society deems less attractive. I'm just saying the grass isn't always greener...
Thanks Mr. Jensen. Yep! Everyone's got their struggles, and every up has it's downside. Being a person is just difficult in general—it's just a question of the how, and to what degree. Thanks for pointing that out. I think I'm a better lady when I can keep this in mind.
First thought, and I haven't even finished reading the piece, is that guy clearly isn't a genius, if he chose to live in Florida. Sorry Florida. I love you, but you're not the smart move.
Fascinating. I think you may be on to something very important here about Intelligence, happiness, other conditions like ADD (although you don’t call it that-I do!) OCD, Tourette's, and a remarkable pattern amongst this tiny sample of 5 people re: the difficulty of holding down a job. (Well 2 of 5 so 40% and no job was mentioned for André Gangvik unless it’s student/powerlifter)!
So many people feel insecure about their intelligence and I feel like the info you are imparting here could put that in a new perspective. The most common theme I got amongst all five is how fast or deep or intricately they think - did I get that right?
Plus your brilliant humor always makes your newsletter so readable and fun, no matter the topic.
Another interesting point to consider is that probably hundreds of people saw my query in the online forums and these are the give who kindly volunteered for an interview (I actually got a bunch more, but either they came in too late, or wanted to be be anonymous). So it's for sure a very self-selected sample.
But yes—I don't think I included in the piece, but the way one guy put it is that when he gets together with other genius types, they can keep multiple threads going in the same conversation, at a very profound level. And yes, very fast!
So true. It would be interesting to know stats of members who also have a a learning or social disorder. (I hate labeling ADD, OCD, Asperger’s, etc as “disorders.” Maybe they’re really enhancers.)
Fascinating. I appreciate the work that went into this. I assume smarter people navigate life better, but the truth is everyone struggles with something. I was also wondering about the difference between wisdom and intelligence. I liked the very human face you put on the supersmart among us!
Thanks John! I, too, am curious about the correlation (or lack thereof) between intelligence and wisdom. The problem of course is that the first is difficult to measure and the second is impossible. Though I’m sure someone somewhere is trying!
So interesting! I’m wondering about IQ tests as measures of intelligence and whether other types of intelligence - perhaps those usually labelled more ‘feminine’ such as emotional intelligence - are included.
Oh my goodness Utpaladhi! As I'm sure you know, IQ tests measure a very specific and narrow set of abilities and leave a lot out. On the other hand, they do serve (from what I've read) as accurate predictors of success in very specific domains.
I've also read a bit about how people have tried to come up with tests for other sorts of abilities, such as emotional intelligence, as you cited. My sense is that this hasn't caught on as much, simply because these abilities are more difficult to measure!
Intruiging - I’d love to hear more about those tests, I must do a bit of research. And yes much less easy to measure!
I partly say this all because I was a very average PhD student/early career academic (before I jacked it in!) but noticed my communication and emotional intelligence was more developed than some of my more intellectual peers. I, of course, beat myself up about not being as clever… but probably find it a lot easier to move through the world in many senses.
Right off the bat, I have to say i have a big problem with the name of the Prometheus Society. Can you imagine how painful it is to have an eagle eat your liver every day?! (it grows back over night).
Sadly, I seem to have all the social awkwardness that many of these geniuses exhibit without the actual intellectual gifts. I did score pretty well on the CAFÉ ANNE What Makes you a Real New Yorker™ test. I'm off to print my results on parchment.
I love this. I had a close friend who did his PhD in American History at Princeton. He told me that most of the people he met there were "just a bunch of trained monkeys" 😅. In other words, you can be good at school, or an egghead, or have a crazy high IQ, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have any common sense or are emotionally intelligent or any number of other attributes. Brains ain't all theys cracked up to be.
I know what your friends means about the trained monkeys. My favorite brains are the minds of people who SURPRISE me! Who come up with their own original ideas and perspectives. I think that is a lot more rare than a high IQ. Is there a correlation between the two? Very curious about that!
Ha, what I wouldn't give to be a trained monkey who was able to get though an LSAT, MCAT, or GMAT, earn the degree and credential, and go on to have one of "those" careers. I've got some basic intelligence, and I've managed to earn a decent living at what I'm good at, but the pain of academic and intellectual mediocrity lingers decades later. I know too many people who have the brains along with other endearing personal attributes to be comforted by any delusion that it's always a tradeoff. :)
Oh, to be clear, I wasn't trying to say there was any trade-off involved! My friend, for example, was not only the smartest, but also funniest and greatest friend I ever had (he is since deceased). And to give some context, he made his comment to cheer me up because I always regretted not returning to University to do strictly academics after having completed my degree in fine art. I had a small child at the time, and he was trying to make me feel better about not going back to school 🙂
One of the societies (I can’t remember which one) had a motto in Latin which when translated into English read ‘Happy is he who can know the causes of things.’ I am happy and don’t worry about what I don’t know. There is always Wikipedia. 🐰
No, but I have a wife who knows a little Latin (and so much more!). Like you I find knowing things I didn’t know can depress me, for a while, but I quickly bounce back. I can’t create a fairer, more just, society on my own, but in my own day-to-day world I am happy, and with other folk who have a little happiness to share. There is another saying. ‘Ignorance is bliss’ and many of our several lives, especially childhood, are made ‘happy’ by what we don’t know. Forgive my long reply Anne.🐰 P.S. I can’t imagine NYC caring an arse about I.Q., though I loved all the individuals you spoke with.🐰
I don't recall my actual IQ number, as I haven't tested in decades, but I recall my mom forbidding me from trying to join Mensa because a family in my school had a Mensa kid who was "one of those weirdos who can't be social." Funnily enough, I'm still friends with that whole family. Never did join a society, though.
When I saw this weeks title, I professed some fear about whether the topic would be fun. Why doubt Anne K who seems to make things fun a prerequisite. My theory is we manage to commit ourselves to circles of people and interests. Sometimes by necessity but hopefully enough just for fun. After reading these interviews I am happy for each of these people since they seem to have found something that works for them. To keep it all on topic (unlike last week) I thought of Groucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member". I highly doubt any of these clubs would want me nor would I qualify.
LOL I suspect that you WOULD qualify, Mr. Dolan, at least for Mensa, but I get a kick out of you thinking you would not.
I'm glad you found this one fun. I personally had SO MUCH FUN doing the reporting and interviews and writing, but I was quite concerned I was the only person who might find the topic interesting (not that it stopped me). So it's great to hear this from you. I don't want to be the only one having fun.
I think Mensa, akin to asking a ten year veteran at work where they went to school and what their GPA was is a WASTE OF TIME!!! Life provides a PERFECT EXAMPLE of many things to make a point. Today I am navigating the NCAA process of assigning guest passes to their sports events. One of my nieces is a great basketball player and is a freshman at a Big 10 University. We are going to watch her play tomorrow. The process to register people to use guest passes is onerous. I would WAGER that most of your Mensa-like interviewees would not have the capacity to navigate the process. If I were still writing I would share a laugh or two.
a particularly exhaustive study and as you perhaps i was hoping for more of the mundane telling details of being "smaht" i mean Kant you picture say Aharon and I entertaining you over coffee at Dunkin Donuts with our habitual need to discuss "Critique of Pure Reason"? I know my IQ is beyond the beyond when i still desperately check the back of Mrs. Gorton's frozen fish sticks for the time and temp. to bake at and i've lived on that at least twice a month for decades fuuuuck just glanced in freezer and there is no "Mrs." !!!! see?????????
I had a Manx cat who was so brilliant and magnetic and utterly compelling that my husband and I used to tease her by leaving the Critique open near her little cat bed. When she died, we buried her with a copy.
Because I'm Old, I not only remember Dunkin' with china cups, there was also a window where you could watch the baker making the donuts, at least at the location we went to in Chicago (Addison and Elston, still there but no more window).
A funeral procession for the building! Oh how I love New Yorkers.
The Dunkin video! Anne, do you remember Chok Full O Nuts coffee in NY? That counter top only coffee place was still there when I moved to NY in ‘84.
These interviews were wonderful. My sister’s MIL was a MENSA member. She was mostly a stay at home mom and very involved with their local synagogue. Nice to see a woman amongst the interviewees.
CK, there is still a Chok Full O Nuts coffee shop in Borough Park which as you know is an Orthodox 'hood. I should definitely stop by and check it out.
So glad you enjoyed the interviews! To me, a stay-at-home mom joining Mensa makes SO MUCH SENSE. After spending all day with your toddlers or whatever it'd probably be a huge relief!
Such a good reminded that while we might perceive of a person with certain gifts -- intelligence, money, looks -- it doesn't mean their life is great. Not at all to minimize the struggle of those who don't have money or that society deems less attractive. I'm just saying the grass isn't always greener...
Thanks Mr. Jensen. Yep! Everyone's got their struggles, and every up has it's downside. Being a person is just difficult in general—it's just a question of the how, and to what degree. Thanks for pointing that out. I think I'm a better lady when I can keep this in mind.
First thought, and I haven't even finished reading the piece, is that guy clearly isn't a genius, if he chose to live in Florida. Sorry Florida. I love you, but you're not the smart move.
So funny, Mr. Estrin!
I believe Mr. Hoeflin used to live in NYC. Maybe he's one of those Florida-as-sixth-borough types.
I think you need to do a piece on the Florida-as-sixth-borough types. Next time I'm in Florida, I'd be happy to do some additional reporting.
Such a fun idea!
I literally thought the exact thing; and Jacksonville?
Also a questionable choice of location within Florida.
haha!
Fascinating. I think you may be on to something very important here about Intelligence, happiness, other conditions like ADD (although you don’t call it that-I do!) OCD, Tourette's, and a remarkable pattern amongst this tiny sample of 5 people re: the difficulty of holding down a job. (Well 2 of 5 so 40% and no job was mentioned for André Gangvik unless it’s student/powerlifter)!
So many people feel insecure about their intelligence and I feel like the info you are imparting here could put that in a new perspective. The most common theme I got amongst all five is how fast or deep or intricately they think - did I get that right?
Plus your brilliant humor always makes your newsletter so readable and fun, no matter the topic.
Thank You Anne!
Awww thanks Cara!
Yes I was struck by how much they had in common!
Another interesting point to consider is that probably hundreds of people saw my query in the online forums and these are the give who kindly volunteered for an interview (I actually got a bunch more, but either they came in too late, or wanted to be be anonymous). So it's for sure a very self-selected sample.
But yes—I don't think I included in the piece, but the way one guy put it is that when he gets together with other genius types, they can keep multiple threads going in the same conversation, at a very profound level. And yes, very fast!
So true. It would be interesting to know stats of members who also have a a learning or social disorder. (I hate labeling ADD, OCD, Asperger’s, etc as “disorders.” Maybe they’re really enhancers.)
Talking with these people has sort of got me thinking that maybe they are both disorders AND enhancers, CK! Two sides of the same coin.
All the geniuses I know aren't working. It's a chicken or egg kinda thing : )
I think we must have the same friends!
Fascinating. I appreciate the work that went into this. I assume smarter people navigate life better, but the truth is everyone struggles with something. I was also wondering about the difference between wisdom and intelligence. I liked the very human face you put on the supersmart among us!
Thanks John! I, too, am curious about the correlation (or lack thereof) between intelligence and wisdom. The problem of course is that the first is difficult to measure and the second is impossible. Though I’m sure someone somewhere is trying!
I’d like to see you write a piece about Emotional Intelligence.
I wonder if there are high EQ societies? I've GOT to look into that!
If there aren’t we could create some!
So interesting! I’m wondering about IQ tests as measures of intelligence and whether other types of intelligence - perhaps those usually labelled more ‘feminine’ such as emotional intelligence - are included.
Oh my goodness Utpaladhi! As I'm sure you know, IQ tests measure a very specific and narrow set of abilities and leave a lot out. On the other hand, they do serve (from what I've read) as accurate predictors of success in very specific domains.
I've also read a bit about how people have tried to come up with tests for other sorts of abilities, such as emotional intelligence, as you cited. My sense is that this hasn't caught on as much, simply because these abilities are more difficult to measure!
Intruiging - I’d love to hear more about those tests, I must do a bit of research. And yes much less easy to measure!
I partly say this all because I was a very average PhD student/early career academic (before I jacked it in!) but noticed my communication and emotional intelligence was more developed than some of my more intellectual peers. I, of course, beat myself up about not being as clever… but probably find it a lot easier to move through the world in many senses.
Right off the bat, I have to say i have a big problem with the name of the Prometheus Society. Can you imagine how painful it is to have an eagle eat your liver every day?! (it grows back over night).
Where's the IQ in that name?
LOL membership has its privileges for sure, David!
Sadly, I seem to have all the social awkwardness that many of these geniuses exhibit without the actual intellectual gifts. I did score pretty well on the CAFÉ ANNE What Makes you a Real New Yorker™ test. I'm off to print my results on parchment.
So funny Rob.
And that is the test that counts of course!
Linking here for those who want to know how they stack up:
https://annekadet.substack.com/i/137566559/the-cafe-anne-real-new-yorker-test
I love this. I had a close friend who did his PhD in American History at Princeton. He told me that most of the people he met there were "just a bunch of trained monkeys" 😅. In other words, you can be good at school, or an egghead, or have a crazy high IQ, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have any common sense or are emotionally intelligent or any number of other attributes. Brains ain't all theys cracked up to be.
Thanks BA!
I know what your friends means about the trained monkeys. My favorite brains are the minds of people who SURPRISE me! Who come up with their own original ideas and perspectives. I think that is a lot more rare than a high IQ. Is there a correlation between the two? Very curious about that!
Ha, what I wouldn't give to be a trained monkey who was able to get though an LSAT, MCAT, or GMAT, earn the degree and credential, and go on to have one of "those" careers. I've got some basic intelligence, and I've managed to earn a decent living at what I'm good at, but the pain of academic and intellectual mediocrity lingers decades later. I know too many people who have the brains along with other endearing personal attributes to be comforted by any delusion that it's always a tradeoff. :)
Oh, to be clear, I wasn't trying to say there was any trade-off involved! My friend, for example, was not only the smartest, but also funniest and greatest friend I ever had (he is since deceased). And to give some context, he made his comment to cheer me up because I always regretted not returning to University to do strictly academics after having completed my degree in fine art. I had a small child at the time, and he was trying to make me feel better about not going back to school 🙂
Understood! Thanks for the comment.
This was a good issue and left a lot to think about. I was in Mensa for many years.
Oh Irene, that's so interesting! Would love to hear more of your thoughts—why you joined and what you got out of it.
One of the societies (I can’t remember which one) had a motto in Latin which when translated into English read ‘Happy is he who can know the causes of things.’ I am happy and don’t worry about what I don’t know. There is always Wikipedia. 🐰
The Vertex society, aka Kevin! Did you translate or do you know Latin?
I'm more of the type always wanting to know the causes of things. Whether that makes me happy is another story!
No, but I have a wife who knows a little Latin (and so much more!). Like you I find knowing things I didn’t know can depress me, for a while, but I quickly bounce back. I can’t create a fairer, more just, society on my own, but in my own day-to-day world I am happy, and with other folk who have a little happiness to share. There is another saying. ‘Ignorance is bliss’ and many of our several lives, especially childhood, are made ‘happy’ by what we don’t know. Forgive my long reply Anne.🐰 P.S. I can’t imagine NYC caring an arse about I.Q., though I loved all the individuals you spoke with.🐰
I don't recall my actual IQ number, as I haven't tested in decades, but I recall my mom forbidding me from trying to join Mensa because a family in my school had a Mensa kid who was "one of those weirdos who can't be social." Funnily enough, I'm still friends with that whole family. Never did join a society, though.
Mom: "No booze, no cigarettes, np drugs and above all NO MENSA!"
Hahahaha
When I saw this weeks title, I professed some fear about whether the topic would be fun. Why doubt Anne K who seems to make things fun a prerequisite. My theory is we manage to commit ourselves to circles of people and interests. Sometimes by necessity but hopefully enough just for fun. After reading these interviews I am happy for each of these people since they seem to have found something that works for them. To keep it all on topic (unlike last week) I thought of Groucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member". I highly doubt any of these clubs would want me nor would I qualify.
LOL I suspect that you WOULD qualify, Mr. Dolan, at least for Mensa, but I get a kick out of you thinking you would not.
I'm glad you found this one fun. I personally had SO MUCH FUN doing the reporting and interviews and writing, but I was quite concerned I was the only person who might find the topic interesting (not that it stopped me). So it's great to hear this from you. I don't want to be the only one having fun.
I think Mensa, akin to asking a ten year veteran at work where they went to school and what their GPA was is a WASTE OF TIME!!! Life provides a PERFECT EXAMPLE of many things to make a point. Today I am navigating the NCAA process of assigning guest passes to their sports events. One of my nieces is a great basketball player and is a freshman at a Big 10 University. We are going to watch her play tomorrow. The process to register people to use guest passes is onerous. I would WAGER that most of your Mensa-like interviewees would not have the capacity to navigate the process. If I were still writing I would share a laugh or two.
a particularly exhaustive study and as you perhaps i was hoping for more of the mundane telling details of being "smaht" i mean Kant you picture say Aharon and I entertaining you over coffee at Dunkin Donuts with our habitual need to discuss "Critique of Pure Reason"? I know my IQ is beyond the beyond when i still desperately check the back of Mrs. Gorton's frozen fish sticks for the time and temp. to bake at and i've lived on that at least twice a month for decades fuuuuck just glanced in freezer and there is no "Mrs." !!!! see?????????
Appleton, are you high again?
no but thanks for the reminder!!👌💪💥
😂
I had a Manx cat who was so brilliant and magnetic and utterly compelling that my husband and I used to tease her by leaving the Critique open near her little cat bed. When she died, we buried her with a copy.
Because I'm Old, I not only remember Dunkin' with china cups, there was also a window where you could watch the baker making the donuts, at least at the location we went to in Chicago (Addison and Elston, still there but no more window).
Ha I love that you capitalized “Old” Pam! Didn’t Krispy Kreme also have a window like that on some of their stores?
I think Krispy Kreme does have a window or view to the back in larger stores, as well as a neon sign they turn on when the donuts are just made!
Outstanding newsletter - thank you.
I feel badly for many of these folks who due to their high intellect are lonely, or dysfunctional socially, etc.
Personally, I prefer cultivating a calm quiet mind.
A racing mind - however fast and intellectually advanced - is not a recipe for happiness, joy, compassion, wisdom (imo)
I hope they can find a way to be happy.
Reflecting on this, I think they are happy enough, or perhaps as happy as any random five people you might find on the street, Mordy.
I totally agree that a racing mind is not much fun—and I speak from vast experience, haha.
Thanks for your kind words!
A funeral procession for the building! Oh how I love New Yorkers.
The Dunkin video! Anne, do you remember Chok Full O Nuts coffee in NY? That counter top only coffee place was still there when I moved to NY in ‘84.
These interviews were wonderful. My sister’s MIL was a MENSA member. She was mostly a stay at home mom and very involved with their local synagogue. Nice to see a woman amongst the interviewees.
CK, there is still a Chok Full O Nuts coffee shop in Borough Park which as you know is an Orthodox 'hood. I should definitely stop by and check it out.
So glad you enjoyed the interviews! To me, a stay-at-home mom joining Mensa makes SO MUCH SENSE. After spending all day with your toddlers or whatever it'd probably be a huge relief!
Haha. So true. Even us non geniuses needed a break from coloring outside the lines with our toddlers.